Viewing up to 50 miles away

We are searching for the best model to purchase for a deck view….we just purchased a home in Panama and want to be able to see the island where our son fishes which is about 46-50 miles …34 by land and 12 by sea – I was looking at telescopes when I found you on a google search. Do you have a model that would see that far that is on a mount …and not for the “professional”??  Thank you.

One of our Long-Range Observation binoculars would be the best choice for long distance viewing.  Using both eyes adds perspective and depth perception to the view, while a telescope presents a very “flat” view.  These are truly the world’s most powerful binoculars, however, 45-50 miles is very distant, and the curvature of the earth over that distance will come into play.  If you are standing on the beach looking out over the water, the horizon is only 3 miles away due to the curvature of the earth.  You have to be standing higher than sea level and/or your target must be higher than sea level to be able to see farther than 3 miles.  There is a formula to determine how far the horizon is, based on the observer’s height above sea level.  The formula is Distance (in miles) = 1.2246*SQRT(Height in feet).  So let’s assume your deck is 200 ft. about sea level.  The square root of 200 is 14.14.  Multiply that by 1.2246, and you get 17.3 miles.
Of course you’ll still want the binocular for your deck view, but unless you’re particularly high up, and/or there are features on the island that are very tall, you probably won’t be able to see the island simply due to earth’s curvature.  Let me know if you have any questions, I’m happy to answer them.
Kevin Busarow

Hi Kevin,
This is super! We are actually at 4200 ft. above sea level.  Don’t know how to do that square foot thing…but knowing the altitude and the distance to the sea (35) miles…Island is about 12 more miles….what is your recommendation for binoculars…also would be great to look at stars too…but would love to know the distance.  What do you think?

From that height, the horizon is 79 miles away.  Over that distance, you’ll need perfect atmospheric conditions to get a really clear view- so some days will be better than others.
The 25/40×100 Long-Range Observation binocular that I mentioned earlier would be great for this.  But if you are interested in binocular astronomy, as well as looking out across the water, you should consider our BT-100-45.  It has 45-degree viewing, which is much more comfortable for your neck when viewing the night sky.  When viewing to the horizon, you’ll be looking down into the binocular at a 45-degree angle- but that’s quite comfortable.  It also means the binocular can sit lower on the tripod, and is more accommodating of people of different heights.  Just set the tripod height for the shortest person, and taller people can just bend over a bit more to view through it.  The BT-100-45 is also capable of even greater magnification than the 25/40×100 using our optional 75x eyepieces.  But note that these binoculars are not weatherproof.  You should set this up indoors looking out through a big window to your view.  Take it outside only in nice weather, and for night sky observation of course.  Let me know if you have more questions.


76 Replies to “Viewing up to 50 miles away”

  1. Andrew says:

    This is nonsense. “the curvature of the earth comes into play after 3 miles.” I call BS! I can see ground level features of the Toronto skyline clear across Lake Ontario from Ft. Niagara, NY on a clear day from the beach. That’s 40 miles across, from that distance there should be 1066 feet of curvature obscuring ANY of the Toronto skyline (yet I see it quite clearly with the naked eye.) The earth is flat dude!

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      No, you cannot see ground level features in Toronto from the Ft. Niagara beach. Toronto is roughly 300′ above sea level, Ft. Niagara beach is 275′ above sea level, and Lake Ontario is 243′ above sea level. They are 34 miles apart, but you could only see ground-level if they were 11 miles apart. There are around 20 buildings in Toronto over 700′, so you certainly could see the tops of those. You could also see higher elevation ground to the north of the city, behind the tops of the buildings, so it might look like a shoreline/skyline at that distance- but you’re not seeing any Toronto ground-level features. But if you believe the earth is shaped like a pizza, then you already know the fake math is NASA’s contribution to the government cover-up.

      1. Jose says:

        Obviously, you cant see all the ground features because there are hills and valleys between both locations. The Sea and Lakes are the best proof as at most your only contending with Waves.

        The original commend stands. you should not be able to see that much… and its not the only area showing this proof. Open your eyes and you will see. otherwise, stay closed minded and only do and see what you are told.. easy way out for many is the only way to live…

      2. Kevin Busarow says:

        “The original comment stands”? Are you Andrew or Jose? If I was trying to convince people the earth was shaped like a pizza, I wouldn’t use my real name either. I’ve traveled the globe (the round globe) by jet, including the polar route numerous times- but I’ve never seen the edge of the pizza. Is that a restricted area?

      3. Mark says:

        lol. lots of idiots out there!!

      4. Wendell Walton says:

        Well… we were able to see across 13.25 miles of ocean down at the water level with a mirror flash that can only be seen with line-of-sight. With a camera height of 3 ft. even the Metabunk Earth Curve Calculator estimates the Refracted Hidden Height at 68.65 Feet–meaning nearly 70 ft. of water “bulge” should have blocked the mirror flash. If you want to see the video, go to Flat Reality Earth Explorers channel on YouTube and look for the Monterey Bay Observation. You’ll see a great white shark that breached the water too! And if you’re a man of faith, the Bible teaches that the earth is flat and stationary with over 200 verses. Just sayin’ —

      5. DFR says:

        If there were ‘curvature’ as you say, and not atmospheric refraction, human eyesight range limitation, compounded wave action over distance, we would see approaching ships appear bottom side up 1st, since they are coming over curvature.

        Ships approaching as they right themselves level have to show bottom of ship first, then the sail as they level off when getting closer.

        What we see, is ships approach with sails visible first, debunking curvature and proving Flat Earth.

        If buildings were truly disappearing due to curvature, we would see them curving away from each other on left and right as well as curving away from us as seen from ocean shore to distant horizon from our perspective.

        When we can see a city skyline that’s ‘hidden by curvature’ at 50+ miles away from us, but the city skyline is 68 miles wide with 0 building lean for curvature they supposedly are under because of the ball, does this mean we are living on a cylinder?

        No. It means globe ball is a lie. If a city skyline is perfectly level from left to right for 68 miles with 0 at all buildings leaning away from each other, it’s also perfectly level from horizon to beach where we view this city skyline.

        If buildings do not lean away from us due to curvature for 50 miles distance away from us, and also do not lean away from other buildings from L to R as seen for 68 miles across, the Earth is Flat.

        There isn’t any globe ball explanation for this that works. It’s dead.

        Earth is Flat.

    2. Rodney says:

      Lmfbo okie dokie Columbus

      1. Friend says:

        Rodney these scientific observations shouldnt be scolded because it denies the evidence presented in our system of thought.YOU SOUND HONESTLY EDUCATED.IN EXTENSIVE data…data however carefully given may not be 100%accurateWe see the scientific community breaking through old dogmas constantly.The word precognative dissidents…is a reaction to adverse data or evidence that confounds what we believe to be common knowledge and elementary,Might in fact be common misrepresentation of data.Why do you think they present us with something so heavy to our learned teachings at the age of 3 to 5 yrs old.And even you RODNEY were baffled with the logic
        When at first presented with the model of the earth…Your question as was all of us children not yet indoctrinated was based on what youve experience and understood of the basic mechanisms of our world (new to it as we might of been)was definitely WHAT KEEPS THE PEOPLE ON THE BOTTOM FROM FALLING OFF THEN?IT WAS THERE THAT THE INDOCTRINATED TEACHERS (NOT VILLIANS BUT PART OF A SELF -PERPETUATING BELIEF SYSTEM BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THE EXPERTS(ALSO MEMBERS OF A SELF-PERPETUATING SYSTEM.)I would only state that to be 100% accurate would be not to trust the numbers presented and instead run the numbers yourself .Surely you can keep your motivations as this is to disprove the obvious but be a good field observer and apply this flat system as possibility…no matter how unlikely or ridiculous you might believe its not.,because remember you knew this since the wise old age of 3 to 5 and honestly tested it against other theories ZERO TIMES.Why would you of tested it.?There was never a reason to…there was no other system of thought presented to compete with the current model.But there is now and its up to you to choose what to believe.And if you dont go through the data and numbers personally and take you data like a partisan member of a political party takes from his side.. what pleases him…then that is the motivation of your belief…pleasure not fact?

      2. Bob Knodell says:

        the bible also says ALL insects have 4 legs and yet there’s not a single insect known to have 4 legs. also there is not a single time in the fictional book called the bible that says FLAT EARTH anywhere, even if it did its FICTIONAL. just like the rest of the flat earth believers you have ZERO evidence and science has plenty.

    3. Greg says:

      Where is you brain, I think you may have lost it somewhere. Take a minute to think about what you’re saying. You’re saying that every one and their mother lies about the Earth being a globe. Why would they spend trillions of dollars on something that foolish. We can do basic math and even use lights to determine that the Earth isn’t flat, heck we can even use helicopters and boats as well as planes to determine that isn’t true. Here’s an even better one, use a telescope on ground level and try to look a straight line to a place that is on the other side of the planet, oh wait you can’t. Doesn’t hurt to try and record anything evidence you find.

      1. Z says:

        “USE YOUR BRAIN!! Me and everyone else believe the earth is round so it must be round!”

        Is this seriously what you use as proof…?

      2. A says:


        You lack reading comprehension if that is the only thing you understood in that post. A lot of flat-Earthers have below-average IQ, so no surprise here.

      3. Amin says:

        Flat-Earthers ignore the fact that when you look at a distant ship in the sea, you see the ship’s top first and the rest of it after it came nearer. Something Eratosthenus found and made him think of in about 2000 years ago!

      4. joshua smith says:

        Well there was an ancient tool that allowed as far back as the Egyptians to survey measure and learn the earth was round, not flat, Today you see images variations of what we think of as a symbol, both new and extremely old of that which is really a tool n many places, you would now it as the Celtic cross. A British I think fellow Crichton Edward McGregor Miller rediscovered the tool from those images, was even given a patent on it, he used it to measure and calculate the curvature and circumference of the earth, and many other things, and uses like navigation, he wrote a book where he explained it, The Golden thread of time which is still available in some places.

      5. Greg Norris says:

        Greg, I did the math. My name is also Greg. The formula within the limits of human vision for the curvature of the earth is distance squared times .75 feet. So at 7 miles out a 35′ tall boat would completely disappear from the curvature of the earth. 7x7x.75’=36 feet. The problem is, is that you take out a telescope and you can see 100% of this 35′ boat that has “disappeared”. It only disappeared from the limits of human vision, not over the curvature of the earth. If you can see 100% of a 35′ tall boat at seven miles, then the “globe earth” model is a lie. It is that simple.

    4. Dominic says:

      you are right earth is FLAT stop bolivet scm NASA and check yourself

    5. Scorp says:

      lol. no. the earth is not flat as most believe because of what they can see by the naked eye from such a distance. that would have to do with mirage(ing) , as in hydro gasious atmosphere of elements to mirror such a thing from at that precise distance for it to be visible with or without the naked eye.
      because ” it ” would vanish at a different height from field of view.
      in order to see further one [ yourslef] would have to be above the sea level to rise above the furthest
      curveature to see what was being hidden from that ” curve of the earth ” , therefore the earth is not flat .
      sorry for the enlightenment . now you know.

    6. David says:

      Thank you Andrew 👌

    7. Chuck miller says:

      Excellent! I duplicated the shot across lake michigan that was on the news sometime back.
      Sphere earthers are so lost

      1. Joe Williams says:

        Chuck, what type of camera/lense did you use to duplicate the shot of the Chicago Skyline and what were the conditions/time of year? I am I terested doing the same as you!

    8. roger deese says:

      Yes it is?

    9. Ray Brown says:

      Andrew, the nearest point inside Toronto city limits is 36 +- miles from Fort Niagara. In order to see a 6 foot person standing on the beach at Toronto you would have to be about 750 feet above ground at Fort Niagara. http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Advanced+Earth+Curvature+Calculator Make sure you include flat Earthers’ nonexistent best friend Atmospheric Refraction in calculation or you would have to be even higher above ground.

    10. Joe says:

      So, to counter what you said, the earths curvature according to the Pythagorean theorem at 40 miles is about 319 inches, or 7.98 inches of curvature per mile squared which equates to 26.8 feet at 40 miles. Now Seeing “ground” level features in Toronto from 40 miles away is an absolute certainty, provided the elevation change across Toronto from lowest to highest point is much much more than 26 feet. To ot factor in the elevation change is akin to Automatically believing something and rejecting the facts. If Toronto didn’t change in elevation, then you wouldn’t see any ground features…..Idk where you came up with 1,066 feet at. That is totally incorrect. Also as somebody else mentioned they see Toronto is flat at 68 miles acacross. Lets do a little bit more math. Knowing the curvature of the earth is 7.98 inches per mile we can the deduce that 68 miles has a curvature of 542.64 inches or 45.22 feet. To actually believe that the “curve of the earth” could be seen with only 45, feet over 68 miles is totally preposterous. It would look and appear to be totally flat. The earth has a .0145 degree curve which can only be seen if thousand of miles of the horizon are visible. .0145 degree is basically as flat as you can get to the naked eye.

    11. Philip Madlem says:

      Thank you!

    12. Mark says:

      Yup even 100km away hull and sail can be seen after naked eye looses sight.

    13. Rob perry says:

      Ships can see each other at 100 miles apart!

  2. Don says:

    How do flatearthers explain Star trails? …you can clearly see that the earth is round on any given night with a camera on Polaris

    1. Flatearthertexas says:

      The earth is FLAT!

      1. Amin says:

        Have you ever seen a distant approaching ship in the sea? You will see its top first and when it comes closer you will see more of it. What does it mean?
        By the way, If the Earth was flat, cats would be able to put everything off of it to space at the edges!
        Also, if the Earth was flat, how would you explain the sunset and/or sunrise?

      2. Chuck miller says:

        it amazes me that people are still stupid enough to think that a fisheye lens was created so people could see as a fish does.

    2. Friend of those seeking facts not feelings says:

      Good point Don except that the rotating stars are a working part of the flat earth model as well.In fact POLARIS(im so glad you brought this up)is a hole in a globe theory…only because as they mainstream media which feeds us the data that structures our whole belief system ,we are not only spinning but also rotating away from the position that displays the north star …add as well rotating around the sun at the speed of 666,000 mph around a sun traveling itself at over 800,000mph around the galaxy which is also traveling.All of the motion simply presented would make it VERY HARD TO UNDERSTAND ONCE TESTED IN A MODEL HOW POLARIS IS KEEPING UP WITH US FIXED IN OUR NORTH POSITION FOR OVER 4000 YRS…RECORDED IN OUR HISTORY SINCE THE BEGINNING…LET THAT SINK IN.THAT IS ONE OF MANY CONCEPTS OF THIS MODEL THAT FALL APART ONCE REVISITED AND LOGICALLY TESTED.ANOTHER WOULD BE THE ARGUMENT Scorp MENTIONED ABOVE YOURS ABOUT SHIPS WHICH IS ONE OF THE EASIST TO REFUTE.LAW OF PERSPECTIVE…WE SEE IN TRIANGLES…THIS IS PROVEN SIMPLY BY LOOKING DOWN A LONG HALLWAY. THE WALLS APPEAR TO SHRINK TOWARD THE CENTER AS WELL THE CIELING SINKS TO EYELEVEL AND THE GROUND APPEARS TO RISE TO EYE LEVEL.EVEN THOUGH THIS IS NOT HAPPENING WE PERCEIVE IT SO.AS WITH A SHIP AS IT SAILS AWAY AND WE SEE IT SINK WE ARE EXPERIENCING THE LIMITATION OF OUR SIGHT.WITH THE WATER APPEARING TO SWALLOW THE SHIP BOTTOM FIRST UNTILL WE BRING OUT A POWERFUL SCOPE THAT MAGNIFIES OUR SIGHT PAST ITS LIMITATIONS .WE SEE THE COMPLETE SHIP ENTER INTO VIEW.THATS WHAT STARTED THIS DIALOGUE IN THE FIRST PLACE.YPU ARE REFUTING EVIDENCE PROVIDED TO YOU BY YOUR FELLOW MAN.What is their gain in deceiving you and taking the risk of looking foolish?MY IQ IS NOT CHALLENGED AS SOME WOULD BELIEVE DISPITE MY SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT.HONESTLY I DONT BELIEVE IQ HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE GRASPING OF THIS DATA,INSTEAD IT TAKES IMAGINATION TO STEP AWAY AND HUMILITY TO ACKNOWLEDGE WE WERE LIED TO TRICKED OR MISINFORMED ABOUT SOMETHING SO UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED.AGAIN THOSE THAT TEACH WHAT THEY BELIEVE ARE NOT LYING BUT DECIEVED THEMSELVES…(again we have to let go of our predispositions in order to come to a conclusion,which simply means if we see adverse evidence to our constructed frame of thought.That it doesn’t fit into our box of reason.We can through the evidence out or label those whose interpretation is far outside our box (prison)of thought that we must discard it
      We have to learn to relearn sometimes which is extremely hard.)

  3. Jim McGregor says:

    Kevin Busarow is telling only a half-truth. When Kevin says you can only see 3 miles when at sea level, in general he is correct that is the approximate limitation to seeing over distance to the horizon, but it’s not due to earth’s curvature – he’s getting that info from Wikipedia’s talking points, or some handbook from their company or whatever. But it is the approximate distance to the horizon – but what he left out is that is with the UNAIDED EYE. This is because at approximately that distance, lines of convergence result in becoming a tangent or a point on the horizon. For comparison, let’s all remember what the definition of the word “horizon” is: “the line at which the earth’s surface and the sky appear to meet”. Notice it does not say that they do meet, and notice it does not say that it’s because the earth curve’s downward and away from you due to being a globe. It’s just a line where they appear to meet, and this is because of how distance and perspective work.

    However, by using any high-powered zoom tool, let’s say for example Nikon’s P900 coolpix camera, when you are in fact at sea level right on the shore, or even when you place the camera a couple feet above the water at the shore ( a height of only 2-feet above sea level ) – after a boat has disappeared MORE THAN 3 miles, like 10-miles, using the zoom on your camera you can pull the boat back into view, including seeing it touch the water at the bottom of the boat. This type of test has been done dozens-to-hundreds of times over just the last 5 years and it is with complete ignorance that people like Kevin state that it is “due to earth’s curvature you can’t see more than 3 miles at that height” – with the unaided eye, true, but with the AIDED EYE the same type of camera I mentioned can zoom out enough to make islands that are over 50 miles away become visible. The fact that you can zoom the boat back into view at a mere 10-miles proves there is NO CURVATURE. And we know how much curvature is required (not optional) due to the Pythagorean Theorem. In fact because of the Pythagorean Theorem we also have what are called “curvature calculators” which also factor in the height of the observer. At a mere distance of 10-miles there should be approx 66.5 feet of curvature going away from you. 66.5 feet is more than enough curvature to completely hide a 2-story house and it’s roof and chimney. This means it would impossible to zoom 10-miles out across the water at sea level (much less at 2-feet above the water) and pull the boat back into view, because if curvature existed, all you would be zooming into would be to the top of a bulge of downward curving water, and you can’t see around/past the curve can you? Yet we can pull in objects 10-miles or further into view at sea level, which in reality, means that the curvature is missing. It’s missing because there is no curvature. The larger problem with this fact, is that if the curvature is missing in so many places as you view across the water, in order for the earth to be a globe means we must make up for the curvature someplace else: in effect, the curvature has to “double down” in a bunch of other places to make up for this missing curvature. Kevin, I welcome you, or anyone else, to indicate to us where the missing curvature is “doubling down” someplace else to make up for this? It sounds stupid – because it is stupid, and in fact, there is no curvature that “doubles down” someplace else, it would be too easy to find it with 7+Billion people running around with zoom cameras all over the earth, we would be tripping over it, it would have been discovered, and they would have made a documentary about it. You don’t know what you are talking about. Maybe one day you will become curious enough to instead of throwing out “talking points” you’ve heard elsewhere, take your equipment to the sea or large lake ( at least 10-miles across ) and try the zoom test for yourself and see if you’re talking points still work.

    So it’s obvious the Kevin is simply a salesman for a product, he has not actually used the equipment he sells at sea level. He is not a physics major or an astronomer or a math major and does not understand how much curvature exists based on the Pythagorean Theorem.

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      Interesting that you invoke the Pythagorean Theorem to prove the earth is flat when it was Pythagoras that is credited with determining that the earth is a sphere about 2300 years ago. I’ve been an amateur astronomer for over 30 years. From that experience, there are so many proofs and affirmations that the earth is not flat that I don’t know where to begin. How do you explain the different views of the night sky from different parts of the earth? Lunar eclipses? The Great American Eclipse of 2017 (we traveled to Russellville, KY to be in the path of totality). And yes- I’ve used Oberwerk binocular telescopes to observe the other spherical planets in our solar system. I’ve also used our products at oceanfront locations many times (product photo shoots makes a vacation a tax write-off), and yes- I’ve observed ships slowly disappear (as if they were sinking) over the horizon. I’ve also flown the polar route to China numerous times- hours and hours of nothing but ice. Were we actually flying around the perimeter of the firmament? How inefficient would that be- no wonder it takes so long to get there! I attended a presentation by astronaut Scott Kelly talking about his year in space- where he showed hundreds of his amazing photos. I know- he’s a liar and those photos are all fake- right?

      1. Wendell Walton says:

        And yet when we did a mirror observation at Monterey Bay over 13.25 miles, we could see it clearly right down on the beach! Even the Metabunk Earth Curve Calculator gave a REFRACTED Hidden Height of nearly 70 ft. Go to Flat Reality Earth Explorers on YouTube to watch the video for yourself as well as many other observations at Salton Sea. The proof is out there if you want to be intellectually honest. There are a lot of answers for your questions, and there are some we simply don’t know yet. Start with looking for the curve, and do your own research. Just because we can’t explain, for example, how exactly some astronomical events happen, doesn’t negate the fact that there is no curve. The heliocentric model has already been debunked by the Plank, COBE, and WMAP probes, as well as Airy’s Failure, and the Michaelson/Morely experiments. It’s a deep dive and I wish you luck!

      2. MyRealNameIsBen says:

        Just buy the product and see for yourselves. Youtube is helpful in many ways. But it is also full of trolls.

        Buy it
        Try it
        See Facts through YOUR eyes. Not someone you do not even know on youtube. Lol. People using youtube as a credible source is hillarriouusssss.
        Yes nasa uses photoshop.
        So do people on youtbube……

      3. Matt Harvey says:

        If anyone could possibly think that the earth is flat is just a complete idiot. Those people are what’s wrong with this world today. They are so many leaks that come out of the government everyday but everyone that knows the earth is really flat has kept their mouth shut. Do you really think that would really happen. Where the hell does the sun go at night? Never mind I shouldn’t even ask questions because I’m sure the idiots have some stupid explanation for everything. I hate stupid people so much. So many people would have kept this lie up for so long and for what? What’s the point in someone lying about it.

      4. loopy jo says:

        you said you’ve traveled polar routes in a previous comment, did you mean Artic or Antarctic?

    2. Rusty says:

      Is this a joke or do you really believe the earth is flat? Note that nobody has even mentioned atmospheric refraction yet.

      1. Scott. K says:

        So we landed a rover on Mars, cameras mounted show the landing. So why didnt they turn and film the earth,, even after years of people not believing the moon landing for that reason.
        How is it possible we are spinning 1000 mph to the east, yet clouds can move to the east, are they traveling at 2000 mph.
        The moon is spinning we are spinning at 1000 mph shooting through space at 66k mph yet we only see one side of the moon, always.
        Why is it people are so willing to listen to self proclaimed experts that consistently change their theories, calling it settled science.
        Explore find your own truths dont be Lemmings. It’s ok to disagree and the only idiot’s are the people that without their own explorations just blindly believe.

    3. Yin Yang says:

      So stupid. You don’t measure curvature with the Pythagorean Theorem just like you don’t using a straightedge ruler to measure your waist, although I bet you use it to measure the girth of your p*nis to come up with some crazy idea that you have an infinitely huge d***. Oh and just because you can’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. For instance, you haven’t seen your tiny d*** for a long time because of your fat gut, does that mean it you don’t have one? Well no obviously, just that you cant see it because your globe of a fatbody is blocking your line of sight. You know, with it’s curvature. That you didn’t use the pythagorean theorem to calculate. SMH…

    4. Joe Bing says:

      Go watch the experiments on the lake with Mark Seargent, which demonstrate curvature and Mark explains it away, because he doesn’t want the truth, but rather wants fiction…

    5. Hello, I am new the the Flat earth crowd. I have been in the civil engineering field doing survey work for over 40 years and was math major at Cal Poly, Pomona. Let me say, I have done some very long highway projects and 300 acre projects. NEVER have we adjusted the elevations due to the curvature of the earth. My big issue with everything is: How can you apply a linear/flat elevation system to a ball? I just never thought about it until now. Now, I just bought some high powered binoculars to see how far I can see when I put them on a tripod and level. I am using water surfaces as my basis, because they are flat. Checking elevation maps. The good news is: if I prove the world is flat, then I actually prove that God exists! He MADE this earth for us. So, proving a flat earth is a good thing. People have been programmed from birth that the world is round. So, it will be nearly impossible to prove it to anyone.

      1. Rob says:

        God bless you!!!!!! I pray you found the truth. It is so funny to see ignorant people insult others just because they don’t agree. I believe in what God has taught us and I really could care less what anyone thinks of me.

    6. Steven says:

      Just how thick is your pizza? Where can I go to see this edge? Why doesn’t the sky just go dark instead of a sunset?

  4. Don says:

    No one still hasn’t explained Star trails yet. It clearly debunks flat earthers. Step away from the keyboard and observe the night sky for truth

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      More regarding that in this article by Dr. Danny Faulkner, from the Christian website “Answers in Genesis.” He absolutely destroys several flat-earth arguments-
      In fact there are dozens of articles on this website debunking flat earth- just search “flat earth” on their site. Their summary- “Popular today due to Internet videos, the idea of a flat earth lacks both biblical and scientific support and shows a faulty understanding of history. Flat-earth arguments are generally a misrepresentation or misinterpretation of the evidence. Both science and the Bible confirm beyond doubt the earth is a sphere.”

      1. Sharon Elaine Peterson says:

        Kevin, let me start by saying that your photographs are AWESOME!! This is my first time to your site and I LOVE IT!! Thank you so much for sharing your expertise!

        About this ancillary subject that has been raised…

        I’d like to see the Biblical confirmation of a spherical earth. I have been studying this subject in my King James Bible for the past 3 years to see what the Creator has to say about His own creation. (After all, He should know, right?) I have yet to find one single verse, phrase or word that would even hint at a spherical earth. The one verse that is cited frequently to support the idea of a spherical earth is Isaiah 40:22, “…it is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth…” That notion is negated by the fact that Isaiah uses the word “ball” (the only use of this word in the KJB) in 22:18. Clearly, Isaiah was familiar with both geometric shapes and the Holy Spirit inspired him to use the word circle and not ball.

        I recently put together a tri-fold brochure entitled, “The Creator’s Testimony About His Creation”, where I cited 140 verses that affirm things like…

        The earth is compared to a building with a foundation that was LAID and a line stretched upon it. Job 38 Psalm 104 Isaiah 48 (Why does a builder stretch a line on something?)
        It has a cornerstone and pillars supporting it. 1 Samuel 2 Psalm 75
        God began with a water foundation Genesis 1:2 (water lays flat) and laid a compass (circle) upon it. Proverbs 8
        The term “face of the earth” is used 29 times – “Face” is a geometrical term indicating flatness.
        The earth is compared to a clay seal in Job 38:14. Similar to a wax seal on an envelope. Google Image search “ancient clay seal” – very enlightening
        The earth is called God’s footstool. Picture that one! Isaiah 66 Matthew 5 Acts 7
        The earth is said to be “stablished that it cannot be moved” Psalm 93 1 Chronicles 16 Psalm 96
        The sun’s motion is referenced 69 times in the Scriptures. Ecclesiastes 1 Psalm 19
        The moon gives her own light. Isaiah 13 1 Corinthians 15
        The stars will fall TO THE EARTH. Revelation 6 & 12 (How big are those stars???)
        The heavens are compared to a tent and a curtain Isaiah 40 Psalm 104
        The location of heaven is ALWAYS referred to as UP. What direction is UP on a sphere?
        And many, many more….
        PLEASE….show me your ball earth verses. I’m open!

        Let me be clear….my stance is strictly Biblical. I do NOT purport to know or be able to explain all of the details of the inner & outer workings of heaven and earth. In fact, God himself asks Job, “Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?” (38:33) The emphatic answer to these rhetorical questions is a resounding “NO!” Furthermore, the implication is that it is humanly impossible to figure it all out.

        Some say it’s all metaphorical. Well, Titus 1:2 affirms that God CANNOT lie. Therefore, I conclude that God cannot give a blatantly false description of nor a misleading metaphor for His creation in order to accommodate our limited and imperfect perception of reality.

        While the observable physical evidence and our every day experience is demonstrably consistent with God’s description of His creation, my position is a FAITH position…I believe GOD! The prevailing cosmology is also a faith position…you believe Modern Science. Satan is the father of lies (John 8) and he is good at it! He has used Modern Science (better called, “Scientism” as it has become a religion unto itself) to relegate God’s special creation (Earth and man) to an infinitesimal speck in an insignificant galaxy in a universe of unimaginable proportions that is continuing to expand in all directions at a rate exceeding the speed of light…and thereby relegating Heaven, where God dwells, (which God says is above the earth) to some other dimension…if it exists at all. For more information on this concept, I highly recommend Celebrate Truth’s videos called Scientism Exposed, Parts 1 & 2. They’re available on Youtube.

        The foregoing information is respectfully submitted for your consideration. I welcome responses or questions as to what the Bible says about the size and structure of heaven and earth. I will not debate star trails, curvature or things of that nature. Do your own physical research.

      2. Jim Burrows says:

        Thanks Kevin.

  5. I’m interested in this telescope can you send me more on it

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      This article, and subsequent thread, are now 2 years old. Since then, the XL Series binocular telescopes have changed everything. For most of our customers, these are the ultimate instruments for terrestrial or astronomical viewing- there is no reason to look at anything else.

  6. Behzad Gazder says:

    Hi Kevin,
    Interesting thread…
    We just got an apartment on the 40th floor overlooking the sea and I can see a distant shoreline which i know is about 25kms away. Would like to observe it better and was wondering what sort of scope should I invest in?

    Am sure I would point the thing at the moon at some point.
    As it is still a new hobby, I wouldn’t want to spend too much. ( no more than $200 to 300 for now)

    Would also like to check out the edges of the pizza crust to see if its done yet 😉

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      Hi Behzad,
      For your view, and in your price range, I’d recommend the Oberwerk 20x80LW ($199). At just 4 lbs., it’s possible to hand-hold it in daylight, but 20x magnification is hard to hold steady, so it would be best to mount it on the Oberwerk 3000 tripod ($149). You’d also need the Oberwerk Heavy-Duty L Adapter ($14.95).

  7. Mr.Steve says:

    The earth is round… but water is flat… water cannot “bend”. You can see for MILES across water.

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      Water that we visually observe appears to be flat. But because it’s gravitationally attracted to a large sphere, it’s not flat- it bends along with the sphere.

      1. John Doe says:

        That makes sense. Since the earth is spinning at about 1000 miles per hour and is traveling over 600 miles per hour…It just stands to reason that water is being pulled towards it center or pushed due to gravity at a strong enough psi to keep 5-10 miles deep of water on the surface of the globe. Thank you for your insight we are blessed to have your knowledge freely dispersed to us.

  8. Nolan says:

    All I wanted was to learn about telescopes…Now, my life has changed forever.

  9. Chris says:

    I live on the shore 75 ft above sea level is what I’ve determined from a few websites. Seems correct. I can see the west point lighthouse, which is 30km away as the crow flies. I can also see the street light at the wharf near the lighthouse. I can also see the lighthouse in the day as a small blip most days and clearly on occasion. I want to a telescope to see this lighthouse and the local fishing boats clearly but have no idea which one to get

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      Look at the XL Series binocular telescopes-
      Even the smallest, the BT-70XL-ED, is capable of up to 56x magnification, and would work nicely for your view.

  10. Brad Riggs says:

    Holy hell, not sure how I got here but being that I am I have a question for you flat people. why is it every time you guys try to use viewing something in the distance as your proof of the flat-earth how come it’s always within 50 miles? how come you guys don’t do that with something 500 miles away or 300 miles away even 200 miles away or hell even 150 miles away, how come you don’t stand on the west coast of Florida and try to pull in Mexico or go to Key West Florida and try to pull in Havana Cuba, if the Earth was truly flat it wouldn’t matter how far it is you would be able to see it with a high-powered telescope. I just think it’s funny that it’s always within 50 miles.

    1. Friend of those seeking facts not feelings says:

      Im surprised you didnt get an answer yet my friend.Its the same reason we see the stars only at night on a CLEAR night…what you would call atmosphere.Clouds exist all over the sky and tend to constantly have a relationship with evaporating water.Though we can see clearly though small water supplies such as a very clean and clear fish tank but seeing through larger bodies of water tend to blur our vision to the point of obscuring our line of sight completely.The same principal applies to evaporating water though obviously not as dense so the impact on vision is greatly diminished…it is still in existence.It takes more distance to achieve the effect as h20 it is still molecules of matter particles that over accumulation also obscures vision.Very good argument though it shows you brought you objectivity and i respect you and your effort to sort out the truth.The bounce back to you is this…IM going to give some DATA of commonly accepted math of the globe model as taught to us in school.24,901 miles is the presented circumference of our globe model…The radius of that circumference is 3959miles which is the math of our curve..50 MILES WOULD HAVE A CURVE AT THE HEIGHT OF OBSTRUCTION FROM YOUR VIEW OF ANY TARGET 50MILES AWAY WOULD BE 3334FT (O.6PLUS OF A MILE)OVER HALF A MILE OF CURVATURE.Its hard to accept that we in a free society would accept that we are deceived in this concept.We all are workers surfs and slaves yet even residents of totalitarian governments teach this model.We in the USA produce 4xthe work output than slaves forced to do labor because of our state of mind.Example dairy cows have different levels of experiences based on how thier living status exist.When cows are isolated and kept in a hold during the day as opposed to cows who receive an hour of social time to feed and experience simple social herd interactions,produce a gallon more milk than those forced in isolation.We are slaves with the perception of freedom.We are given data and knowledge which modifies our behaviour and perception.They have twisted most data just enough for us to perform our tasks without becoming a challenge to their power.Globe earth serves 3 purposes.It prevents us from feeling the need to explore new lands.Keverything is found and known.Second it minimizes your feeling of self significance.Your are a spec of random dust and happened to be alive by accident.That thier is no meaning except…hete comes the 3rd part …to guarantee the continued existance of our planet over your lives because remember your insignificant and you owe your life to the planet.Your job is to keep it PERPETUATING despite what inconvenience it happens to present to your person to do so.The only tools of thought we get that wont fail us is math.Thier are no two right answers,Only one..This is why things like age of planet have ridiculous high numbers that are needed to believe the odds of their other self-creating,self evolving,self replicating concepts to have a micro chance of happening.Dna being miles of data that is so accurate to mathematically be random is like 1 out of 10 to the 100th power.Which is really a crazy figure so impossible that in order to believe it you need a universe 1 to the 10000000 power and have a timeline of almost equal measure to even conceive it a mini micro possibility.. let me put it to you this in a different way if you need 15 minutes to go to work sometimes you can make it in 10 minutes the odds of you making it n a 20 second time frame would have much better odds because that’s how works math doesn’t allow for imposible.Only a singular correct answer and that answer is exact.So mathematics would argue against the ABSOLUTE PROOF that ironically didn’t exist before Nazi propaganda using scientist HEADED our NASA rocket programs(operation paperclip).When even after NASAs proof there was respected opposition academy that went strong untill the opposition’s base of operations burned mysteriously to the ground.Lots of contradicting data such as ADMIRAL BYRD’s report of a continent as large a USA on the other side of Antarctica.You know the explorer who was first to north pole and 1st to explore south(operation high jump).No pole.Or operation fish bowl with nuclear bomb testing the viscosity of our dome.Or the FACT that every moonrock given away to other nations were fakes.OR THE FACT THAT ROCKET POWER AND EXPLOSIVE COMBUSTION WAS OUR PRIMARY MEANS TO LEAVE THE MOON IN A VACUUM WHERE THIET CAN BE NO FIRE,EXPLOSION,AND DEFINITELY NO COMBUSTION,THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE MOON AND OUR OCEANS IS NOT THE PULL OF THE MOON BUT THE FORCE WHICH WE CAN MEASURE …MAGNETISM.THIS IS WHY THE TIDES AFFECT ONLY DEEP BODIES OF WATER AS OPPOSED TO PUDDLES AND POOLS.The water has to be deep enough to be connected to earths magnetic center.This can be proven with a simple at home test.With a staticly charged balloon (rub it on your head) and a steam of water flowing gently out of the sink.Ive done this.Watch the water respond as you bring the balloon close.The water will bend(not curve ,it always seeks level)towards the balloon.LIKE I SAID .YOU HAVE TO APPLY LOGIC AND WILL POWER TO RELEARN.ITS ABOUT HAVING IMAGINATION TO SEE WHAT WAS CLEARLY AVOIDED AND DISCOURAGED.You who are so bent on following the engraved image of the globe lack the imagination pf an unbiased scientist or the will to do so.I have put the work in and found it irrefutable.When you pick up a pen and paper, look up the formulas(MATH) and do the field test.And accept the new data(hardest part)YOU WILL BEGIN TO REALIZE…JUST HOW FAR THE RABBIT HOLE GOES.

  11. Friend of those seeking facts not feelings says:

    Not to mention tilting 4× yearly for seasons.

  12. Ned Noodleman says:

    This person had a really good question about viewing something at a distance. Then you’ll turn this into some other type of argument. I was hoping to see recommendations of equipment telescopes spotting scopes binoculars and cetera that would be appropriate for this however due to the in a nature of the human mind we all had to go somewhere else with it thanks a lot

    1. Kevin Busarow says:

      It’s because I mentioned curvature of the earth coming into play when viewing over a long distance that the flat-earthers discovered this thread. I find some of the comments quite entertaining. But regarding equipment, the recent introduction of our XL Series binocular telescopes has changed everything. These are the ultimate instruments for terrestrial or astronomical viewing. If cost is not an issue, there is no reason to look at anything else.

      1. Pete says:

        Y’all shouldn’t argue with flat earthers, you might push them over the edge…

  13. Mike says:

    Wow…so many ignorant lies that you claim as facts I don’t know where to start!!! But just to name a few….even admiral Byrd knew the Earth was a globe and if you’d ever watch the ENTIRE interview if him and not the edited YouTube version you’d know this. And if you ever used a cutting torch where oxygen is used as an oxidizing agent you’d understand how rockets work in space. Oxygen usually in the liquid form is added to the fuel so that the rocket is able to fire and burn in space…where there is no available oxygen. And operations fishbowl was not conducted to test the dome…it was done to test the power grid and various electronics in case there was ever a nuclear bomb detonated by our enemies over us in the atmosphere. Your complete brainwashing by idiots in YouTube is very amusing and scary as well. You need to move out of mom’s basement and binge watching YouTube and get a life.

  14. STEALSURFER says:

    This is a gift to all of you.. https://youtu.be/rsAfcn2HRPw

    Earth is flat not a globe

    1. Richard Gilbert says:

      “The Church says the Earth is flat, but I know it is round, for I have seen its shadow on the Moon and I have more faith in a shadow than the Church.” – Ferdinand Magellan

  15. Tom says:

    One observation at a time. Milwaukee Was seen at night from beach in Michigan 70 miles away. Chicago skyline from Michigan daytime 50+miles away. Ships that disappear can be brought back into perspective with a telescope. The answers of mirages and light bending with gravity around the curve with upright images is as preposterous as Epstein killing himself. Let’s address these and get star trail “maps” together and reverse engineer this and work together.

  16. Tom says:

    Let’s not get started on the fake science of gravity either. Not yet. Too much too soon for most. The indoctrination has been Intentionally deep seated and ingrained in us since infancy. If two people were 50 miles across on a beach and their telescopes or lasers were “level”, the midpoint intersection of the two (25’) would be at a height above “sea level” equal to the declared, calculated curvature. Can this be observed? When observations don’t match what we have been told to believe and we get curious, that is a sign of intelligence. Casting away Any doubt in the dogmas of men and blindly following them Without question is radical obedience observed. What telescope would be best to view a city from 70 miles away if ,hypothetically speaking, water was level?

  17. Reepicheep says:

    Cities in group 1: Santiago, Chile; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil; Buenos Aires, Argentina; Group 2: Perth Australia; Melbourne, Australia; Sydney, Australia,; Christchurch, New Zealand. Use a website like http://www.travelmath.com or http://www.distancefromto.com or http://www.freemaptools.com. Now find the distance from a city in group 1 to a city in group 2. Now use Expedia or Travelocity or travel app of your choice and book a flight from a group 1 city to a group 2 city. Why are the flights 35-54 hours long and over 14,000 miles???? And if you find a non stop flight (they are rare) track that flight with a flight tracking app. During that flight you will find the flight to disappear from the app and the information on the app will say the stuff you see is now an estimate. And if you think it bogus, reboot the app. For everyone out there who might be interested. Do this. The results will cause brain mrlt/trauma.

  18. Lover of freakshows says:

    The earth is flat. It is a disk floating in space. The sun follows a flat circular path accross the sky. It rises to the east a d sets to the west. When it sets at the northern hemisphere it rises at the southern which is the other side of the flat earth. The southerners are standing upside down from the northernerns but they dont fall into space because they dont know that they are upside down like when koyote is chasing road runner and he has to look down and realise he isnot standing on ground any more. The problem with this is that when he finds out he does fall, so please dont tell australians that they are upside down because they will fall!

  19. Lover of freakshows says:

    And thats exactly what the round earth theory is: a conspiracy to keep southerners safe from falling.
    By the way, when planes pass the equator they rotate 180 degrees downwards and start flying upside down. That explains turbulance, falsly attributed to air vacuums. The same happens to ships. You can clearly see that the pirate ship in Pirates of the Caribbean floating upside down is trying to illuminate is on the subject

  20. Luis D Arreaga says:

    why cant we see Mt Everest ? If the Earth was flat then why cant you see the Empire State Building when you are on top of Mt Diablo in California that is only 1300 miles ? Do the math for me cause I am so uneducated in your special learning where some how you were taught the earth was flat, oh and the Bible lets see where those guys who wrote the book thousand years before Christopher Columbus noticed the earth was a globe. Even though nobody actually wrote FLAT EARTH in the bible. Some of you never been in a plane at 40,000 Feet in the air and it shows. Some of you havent been in the Navy out on the Ocean where you can see 26 miles out before the Curvature. Flat Earthers are stupid and there is no way anyone can teach a stupid person anything you cannot even teach them they are stupid.

  21. Jake says:

    I’ve been flying commercial for 40 years and personally know dozens of pilots. There is no curvature, the earth is a flat plane. AND there is more land beyond the artic wall.. guaranteed.

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